Dinner at the Sechuan Palace
By Greg Gaylord (DrumPro Magazine, November 2004 - Unedited version)

My name is Greg Gaylord. It is NAMM time here in Los Angeles and I would like you to join our dinner table here at the Sechuan Palace. Joining us tonight will be players who have been making their living in the trenches as working drummers. We have seasoned road veterans as well as players who are just breaking into the business. Everyone joining us tonight comes from a unique perspective of playing, whether it be rock or R & B/hip hop. So order some Chinese take out, grab your favorite beverage, pull up a chair and join us here at the Palace. Shall we introduce ourselves?…

Marco: “Marco Meneghin, not Marco Minneman. Currently playing with Liz Phair.”

Ray: “Ray Luzier. Current main gig is David Lee Roth.”

Michael: “Michael Miley. Playing with Joe Firstman.”

Victor: “Victor Indrizzo. Freelance, or playing with myself as usual.”

Jerohn: “Jerohn Garnett. Currently with Macy Gray.”

Greg: “Why don’t we start with what you have to do to get to be a working drummer. Like auditions, audition protocol and what you have to do to prepare for the auditions. What do you have to do to get the gig?”

Michael: “I’m not as far along as these other cats here, but what I’ve seen pay off more often than not is confidence. Just owning your shit you know. We’re in the process of auditioning guitar players, and no one has come and just taken the job. That job is yours before you walk in. That’s kinda the way I’ve always done it. Most of the gigs I’ve done are through word of mouth, through hangin’ and playin’ with somebody or opening for somebody. SO the important thing is, if your gonna be in a touring situation, to have some kind of a personality. Its more about personality and being able to hang and not piss off some people that are in the bunk across the way from you. You’re only on stage 40 minutes to an hour and a half and there’s 22, 23 hours left in the day to be a person.”

Greg: “When I talked to Dave (Johnstone) earlier today, he said that so much of it is personality based. Everybody going in there is gonna have chops. But there’s also the personality. Can you work with this cat? Are you gonna like being with this guy because you’re gonna be with him a lot. And if you’re on the road, you may be living with this cat. I think that was a pretty good point.”

Michael: “Yeah. Like our last guitar player who just left the band, for a good reason. His knick name sometimes is “doomsday”. He was, like, completely…”

Marco: “You want this going on tape?” (Laughter from everyone).

Michael: “It’s making the point. Like, just being confident and owning your instrument. (That’s true) for any musician going into an audition. No pussies. (More laughs).

Marco: “See this is amazing because I always thought gigs were just decided on a series of blow jobs. The fact that you have to go in and play, this is news to me.” (Laughter).

Greg: “So Marco, how did you get your gig?”

Marco: “Well, being that I’m working with a woman it’s a little different. You know, you get called by… I got called to do the 2 week promo when the album first came out and Liz asked me to go out and do the tour.”

Greg: “What did you do to get that 2 week promo though?”

Marco: “The MD and the bass player knew me. There were a lot of people he (the MD) could have called. But it’s like I came in and did it, and it was cool. He (the MD) didn’t ask me to go out on the tour. Liz personally called me and asked me to go out (on tour). When I did Josh Groben, the MD was a guy I went to school with, who had been working with David Foster and so he (MD) called me. That’s how I did that. All my best gigs have never been through auditions. They’ve always been through someone who knows you and knows what you’re gonna bring to the music other than we just need a body in there.”

Greg: “So a lot of it is political too?”

Marco: “Not necessarily. What I’ve seen, is guys who have a career rather than just a couple of gigs, it’s that you bring a certain thing. To use an example, you (talking to Victor) have a very specific thing. When you do a track, I can tell instantly that it’s you. Bringing that to a gig, people go “yeah we need that thing and nobody else can do it”.

Greg: “So what your saying is Victor has a certain type of personality coming through the drums?”

Marco: “Yeah. It’s something very special that he brings to the music. Miley’s the same way with Firstman. The band would not sound the same way without him. I think that’s a big part of it. When people are basically like, if you’re gone, they’re gonna miss you.”

Michael: “Things wouldn’t be slowing down anymore.” (Laughter).

Jerohn: “Politics are right smack dab in the middle of the game. Everybody in R & B can do the gig just as well as the next guy. Everybody can do the gig, but it’s all about who you know, how long you’ve known these guys, and relationships.

Ray: “I agree about what you (Marco) said about the audition process. I’ve had the David Lee Roth gig for 7 years now. I do sessions all around LA for movie sound tracks, you name it. The way I got the Dave gig was the farthest from an audition. This nerd-y kid kept buggin’ the shit out of me to do a session with him. He said “we’re recording at Steve Vai’s house, you gotta come up and do the session”. I kept blowing him off and blowing him off. Finally I just said “all right man, show me when we’re goin’ to Steve Vai’s house to record this song”, ‘cause he’s this punk kid who’s goin’ to school at GIT, and I was teaching at PIT, and he’s like “I’ll pay you whatever you need, I want you to play drums on this.” I finally did it and it turns out this kid ended up writing with Dave. Two of those songs I did with him, Dave wrote lyrics over the top of ‘em. Dave asked who the drummer was ‘cause he really liked that style. Next thing you know, I’m gettin’ calls to do demos with David Lee Roth. I went in, did the songs, and a week later the manager calls me up and says “that was your audition, you passed with flying colors”. I had no idea I was auditioning for Dave in the studio. But the point is, it’s not all auditions. This nerd-y kid, out of Indiana, that I was almost ready to knock out ‘cause he was buggin’ the shit out of me got me the gig. 7 years later I’m still playin’ with Dave.

Marco: “Half the auditions I’ve done are like “hey, can you do the Tonight Show on Monday?”

Jerohn: “yeah! Fast gigs.”

Marco: “When I did the Josh Grobin gig, my first big gig, we were rehearsing one of his pop opera songs to a track and half way through it David Foster busts open the door and says “You guys all suck! Hi, I’m David Foster.” After we cleaned our pants, it was cool. So it was do the Tonight Show on Monday, and here’s the next date.”

Jerohn: “That sucks. (Laughter). I’ve done, like, 20 of those. One Tonight Show, one Rosie, one here and there. They tell you “yeah were going out, it’ll be about a month or so”…and it’s one show. It’s always one show.”

Marco: “and then it’s “here’s the calendar, block out these dates.”

Jerohn: “Right.”

Marco: “It gets to the Monday before you’re supposed to leave, and it’s like “oh those fell through, we didn’t get the funding”. That’s always fun…

Jerohn: “Let me tell you this. I do the Tonight Show with Macy Gray. The guy comes around and asks, “where do you want your money sent?” I said send my check home. I give ‘em my address. Two weeks pass. I told the manager I hadn’t got my check from the Tonight Show gig. He said, “let me check.” So about 2 weeks of calling my management, the Tonight Show, Tonight Show finance, the union, all this. Come to find out, my check was sent to the (management) agency, cashed by the agency, and the guy has not called me yet. And the horrible thing about it is he gets a lot of people work, but when he gives it, it just falls apart.

Marco: “I did a video for him one time, and when I got the check it was half of what it was supposed to be. That was nice….”

Jerohn: “Better days are comin’.”

Marco: “You (Victor) haven’t said anything man.”

Victor: “Well, I think drummers definitely get the raw end of the deal most of the time. I played with Macy for two and a half years and there’s stuff I did…”

Marco: “You were MD right?”

Victor: “Yeah.”

Jerohn: “Let me shake your hand Dog!” Chris always talkin’ ‘bout you like “Victor laying it on this track this way… Cool deal.”

Victor: “Yeah there’s things I played on I never got paid for. I’m still waiting for stuff. I just did Anastasia last summer that I haven’t got paid for yet. That seems to be one of the hardest things in this business, just to get paid. That’s why a lot of the times I end up going out on the road, for a steady paycheck. For me, going back to the audition thing, there’s only been a couple of times I’ve had to audition. One of the scariest ones I ever did was for Beck. I got an audition for that and I got it initially by doin’ a session and meeting some of the guys in the band. They said, “why don’t you come try out for this?” It’s a scary and daunting thing when you go to some kind of cattle call for like an artist that’s that big. For me, I’m not the guy that has a ton of confidence walkin’ into something. But what I try to do is study the music and see what makes what they’re doing special and can I do that. Is that really part of what I do? Can I get inside what they’re doing? And then go in and play your heart out. Put as much passion as you can into what you’re playing when you go do it. Because it is that thing where everybody’s got chops and everybody can go play. There’s always somebody who’s got better chops, so sometimes it is who you know that helps you get the gig. Sometimes it’s just fitting into that situation. Maybe your personality is right, or your look.”

Ray: “Certain look. Yes!”

Victor: “There’s a lot of factors to it, but I think the bottom line is if you want to play drums for a living, you better just love what you do.

Jerohn: “Amen!”

Victor: “‘Cause if you think you’re gonna get rich or have a steady paycheck, you try maybe singin’ or something”. (Laughter).

Marco: “You brought up a good point though. Talking about going in and learning somebody else’s part… On Liz’ album it’s you (Victor), Matt Chamberlain, Mario, Abe Jr., all these different guys…”

Greg: “And you’ve (Marco) had to learn all their parts?”

Marco: “Learn all their parts, but then try to do it in my own way ‘cause I’m not you (points to Victor). I’m Not Matt Chamberlain.”

Greg: “Not a Xerox copy.”

Marco: “Yeah, you can’t. I can play the part, but it’s not gonna sound like Victor, it’s not gonna sound like Matt, ‘cause that’s just not what I do.”

Ray: “Bring your own personality into it.”

Marco: “How often will you (Victor) just simply change the part because you have to? Maybe it worked on the album, but live…”

Victor: “You have to. It’s like you (Marco) said, you have to bring your own thing to it. That was the thing when I played with Beck, or even doin’ Macy stuff, I played on the second and third record but Matt Chamberlain played on most of the first. So it’s like finding…Try to do what they did. Try to find what they did that makes this song work. But you do have to interject your own personality. Everybody has their own thing that makes them special. You may not play the same kind of fill, but you can put your thing where you hear it as long as it serves the purpose of the song.

Ray: “I agree man. I have to follow Alex Van Halen, Gregg Bissonette, J.R. Robinson and Omar Hakim. To put my own flavor in it (whistles to show it was extremely difficult). You have to play the signature fills and all that, but the greatest compliment I ever got was from Dave ‘cause he said “Wow, you’re playin’ all the signature stuff but I can tell it’s you ‘cause you’re puttin’ a lot of your stuff in.” BUT…there’s certain signature fills that you can see people in the audience air jammin’. If you’re wankin’ over that, forget it. You’re gonna get somethin’ thrown at you. We only played 3 songs on this years tour that I actually played on the records. Everything else is copying these guys.”

Marco: “But those are not bad guys to have to copy! Who didn’t grow up playing to 1984? Running with the Devil and all those. Come on, how fun would that be!”

Ray: “It’s great.”

Greg: “You’re saying signature fills. By that you mean the fills at the end of a phrase where it has actually become part of the music?”

Ray: “Dance the Night Away for instance, if you don’t play it (Ray demonstrates the part on the table)…you’re in trouble. Hot for Teacher is another story. We open with that song… (Moans of pain and awe come from everyone at the table).

Marco: “The bridge on Jump, you almost have to play that note for note.”

Ray: “I do, but I phrase it differently. The thing is, I try not to step on it. I talked with Bissonette about this too, ‘cause we play a lot of stuff off Eat Em and Smile and the records he’s done. I just love his playing. He’s got a great feel and he’s in the pocket. But I still try to make it mine ‘cause I’m out there doing it.

Victor: “I actually saw you play in London over the summer. I was playin’ at one of the same festivals and I came over for a second to watch and I saw you play. It’s neat seeing somebody else’s take on something.

Jerohn: “Right. Man you (Victor) played that Come Together that we (Macy) do.”

Marco: “Is that the fast one?”

Jerohn: “Uh-uh. It’s like… a right here tempo. I heard that little break down and I’m like “ok, we can have some fun with this here song!” Great stuff man (complimenting Victor).

Marco: “I’d like to ask you. On the first track on that album…is that the one…uh…”

Jerohn: “When I see you?”

Marco: “You’re talking about the id right?”

Jerohn: “No, no, no. We’re talking about her last, Trouble Being Myself.”

Marco: “Not the Id… What’s the one…? Hot wings, hot chocolate. What’s that one?”

Jerohn: “Psycopath.”

Marco: “That’s a fuckin’ great part on that one.”

Jerohn: “You (Victor) playin’ on that?”

Victor: “I play on a lot of that album, but I think that might be Matt Chamberlain’s track actually.”

Marco: “On that one?”

Victor: “I think so, maybe”

Jerohn: “Macy has, for her sound, she has some really good percussion. Nailin’ exactly the flavor.”

Victor: “Yeah.”

Jerohn: “The drummers hooked up exactly, and the producers know everybody part and can lock it in.”

Marco: “Now, how did you (Victor) start working with The Matrix?”

Victor: “It was a fluke. It was really a fluke. I just got a call from a guy who used to be Daniel lenwah’s…”

Marco: “Was that from doin’ Theatro with Daniel?”

Victor: “Yeah. It was the Willie Nelson record. I became friends with the engineer and it’s like you go, you show up for a gig, and you play good, and do the stuff, and people are gonna call you back.”

Ray: “You’re always meetin’ people. That’s a really good point though. Be cool to everyone.”

Victor: “Yeah, it’s like you said with that kid. You never know.

Ray: “That kid changed my life.” (Laughter erupts).

Victor: “I met, actually, Daniel Lenwah through doing a record and we wrote him a letter asking him to mix some tracks. We were big fans and we never thought it would work out, but he heard the stuff, mixed the stuff and (we) ended up getting a record from him. From that engineer I hooked up with The Matrix. I remember going in to do the Avril Levine stuff, and I just thought it was like, honestly I never thought I would hear of it again. I do a ga-zillion girl singers like this, and it sounds all the same to me. I thought that’s another one for the cut out bin. A couple months later it’s huge. Then those guys got superstitious so they want to use me on everything, and you know I’m all about it! (Laughter).

Greg: “That’s good.”

Victor: “It’s still, I gotta tell ya, I have so much trouble getting paid still, ‘cause I don’t have a manager because I’ve been screwed over so many times. And I haven’t been able to count on the union to take care of me. I tell people now, if you want me to play, you have a check waiting for me. You can run a single session through the union and do that so I can still try and get health insurance which I finally got this year for the first time.”

Marco: “Through the union?”

Victor: “For the first time ever! We’re talkin’ 10 years down the line.

Jerohn: “That’s a tough game to play man.”

Greg: “I’m in that boat with ya man. I got nothin’.”

Marco: “And you (Victor) have a kid, right?”

Victor: “yeah, I got a family. It’s hard. The thing I’ve found out is that you gotta try and do as many different things as you can. For me, I try to write music too. Luckily, I got to write a lot of songs on that Macy record, but the record didn’t do very good. Everything’s kinda hit or miss, but its like, again, I do have the responsibility to try and take care of a family, but too, I have to do this because I love to do it. Because if not, I’m gonna fuckin’ pull my hair out. Ya know what I’m sayin’? Not having a manager, I have to get out there. I e-mail record companies all the time.

Greg: “So you’re hustlin’ to get everything you got. You’re hustlin’.”

Victor: “Yeah. I’m trying to get paid like everybody else. It’s like, just send me the money for the work. I really wish, and hopefully there will be some changes in the union. I’ve talked to other drummers and musicians about trying to change some things because it’s just really… if you do a job, you shouldn’t have to wait 5 to 6 months to get paid. Any of you guys ever do something where you had to wait, or maybe you didn’t get paid?”

Marco: “Oh fuck yeah.”

Ray: “I’m still waiting for a tour I did in ’94! (Laughter).

Marco: “You can probably let go of that one. Just let go of that one.”

Jerohn: “I think TV shows are the worst. I’m waiting on a check from… what’s that guy? Jimmy Kimball.”

Marco: “Oh! I had to wait forever for that one.”

Victor: “So it’s hard. You gotta learn how to keep up on stuff. Honestly, when I was younger, I left a lot of stuff up to other people. I just thought maybe a manager would take care of it or somebody would look out for me. In my experience, you gotta learn how to do this stuff yourself.

Marco: “Sometimes if there’s a problem I’ll call the tour manager. He’s really great. He takes care of it, so I’ve been really lucky with that. I don’t know any drummers that have a manager”.

Ray: “I know a couple.”

Marco: “Really?”

Ray: “Yeah. They help a little bit, but…”

Marco: “I don’t even know what a manager would do for a drummer. Rather than a manager, I’d rather get a hit man! (Laughter). You wanna get some shit done.

Jerohn: “I have a manager, but I do producing. Another thing, You’re talking about extra income… I come from a church background. Most of the church musicians, nationwide, are out there doing pop and R & B gigs, and lets say 7 out of 10 drummers play bass, play keyboards. And they do it well enough to go hop on that gig. I myself, I play bass. I just came from a bass gig right now. And I produce. So it’s like, drums are nice. Drums are my passion, my first instrument. I’m always gonna play drums, but I need that producing money. I want that sit at home, cut it in my basement, just go to my mailbox and pull out that check money. A lot of drummers in R & B are doing that right now. The guy that plays drums for Missy Elliott, Nissan Stewart, he’s producing on Biance Knowles , Ashanti… He’s doing tracks on everybody. Drummers now, can do all these little beats, so its like set up my mpc. Tracks today, they ain’t nothin’ but little simple lines. It’s just makin’ ‘em all come together. I can make this money. Check in the mail. Easy. Again, we travel; we get on this road and start meeting managers. Talkin’ with the artists. And then on top of that, this guy Nissan, they have a band. Most of the R & B/rap artists, JZ to Puffy to… anybody you can name. Any time they come over there and do a TV show, it’s that one band. You always seem ‘em on TV. They like another house band. Its like “can we get another band”? NO! These guys here play it just like the record and put the fire on it because they produce the album.

Victor: “You know another great point too, I think it’s important to learn at least a little something about other instruments.”

Ray: “Makes you a better drummer.”

Victor: “You know what to listen for when you’re playin’ a song. I’ve never went to a session where someone asked me to throw down some chops. They want you to play for the song and it’s usually pretty simple or in a groove. If you understand playing a guitar or bass or another instrument it helps you so much.

Ray: “Different perspective. Changes your whole perspective on it. I started playin’ guitar about 5 or 6 years ago. Laid me way the hell back. I’m like “oh, wow”. Now I know that if I play this, the guitar player is freakin’. I know this is not gonna mesh with that.

Marco: “That’s another point too; what you need to get the job done. We’re mentioning chops, all of us know, unless you’re playing at the baked potato on a Tuesday night, you will never actually use those chops. When all of us, or at least when I was coming up, especially if you came from any kind of a jazz background, you get in this head space of wanting to do like Vinnie or all these session gods. It’s like “Oh, I gotta practice my reading”. You actually get out there, and it’s like fuck, nobody reads in the valley. It’s all about what you bring to it. Can you groove to a click, do you have good ideas, and can you play musically. That’s it. No one cares.

Ray: “I agree with that highly, but I just finished Billy Shehan's new record and I just 28 tracks. He was asking me to pull off some stuff, like 32 notes on the kick drums where I haven’t played that in quite a while. I was glad I kind brushed up on that a little. But I agree with you 100 percent. It’s all about the pocket and timing. But there’s certain times, ‘cause I’m more in the rock world than probably most of you guys are. Billy was firing, ‘cause he’s used to working with (Dennis) Chambers , Pat Torpey, Terry Bozzio. That’s who he’s used to working with, so when I got that call… 28 songs in 3 days. There was a lot of 7/4. So I agree, but keep up (chops) in the back somewhere. I was trippin’. It was challenging. Kicked my ass you know. Definitely.

Greg: “Talking about chops, when you guys are on the road, what are you practicing and how are you practicing?”

Jerohn: “Getting on lighting directors nerves…

Michael: “Typically, I’m waiting side stage ‘cause they’re setting up the mics and all that shit. I’m like on a starting line, because I want to go out and play. Feel the room. Usually I’ll come in with a new beat that I’m working on, and I get 3 ½ minutes to practice! Otherwise it’s on my e-pad.

Jerohn: “Lot of times, depending on where you at, you develop relationships with different guys. In my little circle, in most towns; Chicago New York, Philadelphia, Dallas Texas, there’s always someone I know. Go to their house: “hey, lets work out”. Get that work out in while I’m on the road.”

Marco: “You mean like on a day off or something?”

Jerohn: “Yeah, yeah.”

Ray: “You hit those states more? You go back there more?”

Jerohn: “Yeah, exactly. While I’m out here (LA), we get together 5 or 6 drummers, 3 drum sets. Beat starts at 9 o’clock, don’t stop until 4 in the morning. Sheriff shuttin’ us down! I’m fortunate enough to really get often enough chance to really work out. All we do is chop. Set an mp, everybody just choppin’ away. When I get to the gig, or sometimes at the house, I may have some specific stuff I work on.”

Ray: “See I don’t get to practice on the road at all. We have a 2-hour show. It’s pretty vigorous, there’s no breaks in it. It’s just non-stop. My real-feel is about all I get. Do my rudiments, that’s about it. But when I come home, that’s when I (practice).

Greg: “But you say your first tune is usually Hot For Teacher! (laughter) Holy cow! Talk about coming out with both guns blaring!”

Ray: “Yeah. No slouchin’! For sure…”

Greg: “You’re going from zero to a million in less than a second.

Ray: “That’s why I definitely warm up. At least 15 minutes before. I gotta stretch every muscle in my body. Make sure I’m ready to go. I made the mistake a couple of times of goin’ out cold. Ooohhh!… Muscles were froze for the first three songs until you get movin’. We’ve never changed the opener in the past 6 years. I keep telling Dave “let’s open with somethin’ different this year”. He’s like “it’s such a great song let’s just keep going”. (laughter).

Michael: “You’ve (Ray) been doing it so long, doesn’t it become second nature in a way?”

Ray: “It does man, but ya know on the road you gotta take care of yourself. Eat, be healthy. This year we were out for a long time. We’re still out. We’re going to Japan and the UK on the 23 of the month. Dave just likes to go. You gotta watch your health. We’ll go out for a couple months straight, then take a couple weeks off. Thank god. It’s such a physical thing. If you’re not properly warmed up, you guys know how the road is, you’re on a tour bus and if one guy gets sick…. That’s why I pound vitamins as much as you can, that’s what I recommend to all of you.”

Michael: “Neosporin in the nostrils, don’t think I’m nuts.”

Ray: “Is that good?”

Michael: “It works, especially on planes.”

Ray: “Really?”

Michael: “It kills germs that you breathe. An opera singer told me this in college and she travels all over the world doing opera shit, and she’s on 15 hour plane flights.”

Marco: “You can kill a lot of pain with icy-hot in the pants too. (Laughter).

Michael: “You can get real anal about it. On a plane, I do that every time ‘cause you don’t know who’s on the plane with you.

Marco: “You always get the one dude who’s always sweating a lot.” (laughter).

Michael: “I used to get sick every time I would fly. Now I don’t get sick and I fly at least every 2 months.

Marco: “On our last bus tour, I was sick. I was literally lying down. It was 3 weeks, no days off. I would just sleep in my bunk, and then get up 10 minutes before sound check, go do soundcheck, go lie down again, then do the show, then go sleep. It was horrible.

Ray: “You (Marco) sing in the band?”

Marco: “No. I probably will on the next tour.”

Ray: “See I sing every song. If I miss one vocal cue, Dave’s all over my shit. So if we get sick, we go down. Your vocals are the first thing to go. I can fake (drums) pretty good with the flu, but if your vocals go down, you’re screwed.

Michael: “You got a vigorous gig!” (laughter). I got it easy. I’m sipping my scotch…

Ray: “I could miss, 5 fills in a row, which I hope I never do, but if I miss one vocal cue Dave’s all over me.”

Marco: “I got a question. Does anybody here smoke?”

Michael: “I did.”

Ray: “I don’t.”

Marco: “How do you smoke while playing, ‘cause I burned my eyebrow. (laughter).

Ray: “Bum E Carlos. You gotta watch his shit.”

Greg: “I think Bun quit a long time ago.”

Ray: “Did he? Bun’s done?”

Greg: “Bun’s done.”

Michael: “9 weeks 1 day.”

Ray: “Yeah? You’re done?”

Michael: “I’m done.”

Greg: “You might be over the hump.”

Ray: “Stay over man. Stay over.”

Michael: “I quit for 17 months, 2 years ago. Then I started up again.

Victor: “I got a year off. At Halloween I had a year.”

Ray: “Nice.”

Greg: “Ray, you brought up a good point about health on the road. What are you doing to stay healthy when you’re on the road?”

Ray: “Well, you have to ask on your rider. Luckily with Dave we travel pretty much in style. We travel well. He takes care of us. We’re at the nice hotels because of that reason; health factor. Not everyone (does that). I toured with The Nixons. I went from Ritz Carletons to motel 6’s. Dave tried to do the Van Halen thing again in 2000, so I was let loose for 6 months. So I appreciate the money spent. The point is, you wanna get the cleaner rooms if you can, if it’s in the budget for the tour. You gotta eat right. On our rider, we make sure we get somewhat healthy food to eat. I’m a sweet fanatic. I gotta have sugar. I gotta have donuts. I gotta have chocolate. I’m the one they’re always yelling at about the rider: “who ordered this shit!”. It’s me, sorry. (laughter). I caught pneumonia in ’99. New York man, I’ll never forget. I just thought it was the flu. We were out for about 4 months. Meanwhile we had a schedule, we were touring with Bad Company, so we had about 4 days in the states, fly to Amsterdam and do 2 shows, fly back do 2 in the states, fly to Japan. We had this crazy, crazy schedule. 9 hour time change, you know, just crazy. I thought I had the flu. I thought I’d just sweat it off. Same thing as you (Marco) bro. I was in the bunk 10 minutes before we hit the stage and my tech would come in and wake me. I’d just crawl out to the stage. Then sure enough, I hospitalized myself. Doctor in New York says “you leave here, you gonna die”. I didn’t want to do that! I.V. in the arm, oxygen in the nose, the whole bit. They admitted me. Me had to cancel 5 shows. It happens. You gotta watch it.

Greg: “I guess you were lucky in one respect that they stuck by you and didn’t bring in someone else.

Ray: “Yeah. I even called Gregg. I called Bissonette, ‘cause who knows the set better? He played that stuff backward for years. But Dave didn’t want to do it, which kinda made me fell good in a way ‘cause they only wanted me to do it. But there’s a lot of cats out there in the rock world too that can… We’re all replaceable. You gotta face that.

Marco: “Was it like “you owe us for those 5 shows”?

Ray: “No. But I had people give me shit at the shows later. Like in Phoenix, “oh I canceled work for you!” I was dying! (laughter). Come on.

Jerohn: “That’s beautiful to hear. (laughter).

Marco: “You know what’s funny? No matter how sick you are, once you get on stage you’re fine.

Ray: “You know you’re right. You’re right. The day before I got hospitalized, I did a show in New York. I swear I looked out and everyone (crowd) looked like gummy worms. Little squiggly lines. I swear when the lights came on and we started doing the show, I pounded threw the whole thing, got off and went to the back of the bus, fell down, and the last thing a heard was “Drummer down!” (laughter). Next thing you know, I’m on a stretcher.

Marco: “I got a great story. When I was playin’ with Josh Grobin, we were playing this Good Morning America broadcast at a vineyard. It was like 2 o’clock in the morning because they have to broadcast it live to New York so it has to be 3 hours ahead of New York to do it live. So we’re there at 3 in the morning, and we all go to the catering truck and get our food. It’s pretty knarly, there’s something not quite right with it. So we go and we do the taping, and it’s just this halacious taping where it’s literally, between commercials they’re figuring out what they’re gonna do. Finally we do the last tune. Diane Sawyer and whatever that guy, Charles Goodwin or somethin’, are interviewing Josh. The MD is there, and you can see him swaying. So they’re interviewing Josh, and you can see the MD take his in ears out, put them on the piano, he gets up, you hear him walk out the door, and as soon as he’s gone you hear Bluuhh (puking noises). On live TV!!!! (laughter). It was so great.

Michael: “On the topic of taking care of yourself, on the hotel things, some days you’re traveling over night. So you don’t really get to sleep in a bed that night. So we get a day room with a shower or something. I’m like in the gym or something. As long as I can keep my mind on trying to stay fit, then I’m usually eating right and doing all that stuff. Most drummers have a pretty aerobic evening.”

Jerohn: “I’m burning, I’m sweatin’.”

Michael: “I just took up running. I’m run about 20 miles a week.

Victor: “Wow.”

Ray: “how much do you run?”

Michael: “I’m up to about 20 miles. I’ll do like 2 fours, and about a two and maybe a seven or ten.

Ray: “How long is your show at night? How long is your set?

Michael: “Well, we’ve been opening for Willie Nelson and Sheryl Crow, so we’ll get the 45’s. We just did a headlining tour in the fall where we just did clubs and radio shows. Joe won’t stop playing until somebody tells him to. You hit the last note, and he’s already going into the next song. You’re looking at the set list and going “ok, this isn’t on the list.” Fuckin’ Rocket Man by Elton John. Joe’s a loose cannon.

Marco: “I was at a party the other night with him and he tried to pound in anyone’s face who didn’t like Fields of Gold by Sting. (Laughter).

Ray: “Vic brought up a great point about going on the road now to make dough. I found out, that’s a lot of my income now. You guys are probably way more into the session world than I am. Especially yourself (Victor). The road to me, is more of a dough maker than back (home). I moved to LA in ’89. Back then, you’re record still counted. Income was coming in from that, but now days, if it wasn’t’ for the road paying my bills…

Jerohn: “I know for me and a couple other drummers, from the church background, there’s some churches in southern California, that are like mega-churches. 25,000 to 35,000 members. I know some church musicians that are making $2000 to $2500 a week, playing at Church. (laughter). I’m talkin’ ‘bout full medical benefits, on top of that doing sessions, writing and producing. Myself, I’m at a pretty large church. I’m not making $2500 a week, but I make enough money to where if I didn’t go on the road, and if I didn’t do anything but play at church, that would be sufficient.

Michael: “(My bass player) in church is making 2000 to $3000 a week!

Jerohn: “It gets pretty insane. You know $200 per service. A service is about 2 hours or so…

Marco: “Sundays, for like years after I graduated from college I was doing 2 church gigs. It was literally $50 for a four-hour service. But you do it ‘cause it’s like “well at least god’s on my side!” (Laughter).

Jerohn: “Then you have some churches who will pay $200 to do a 5 minute little worship service. Come in here, play for 15 minutes, $200. Alright.

Marco: “You do the little Baptist churches and it’s different than doing the Presbyterian and Protestant Churches or whatever. Its real standard, you come in and you do it. There’s like an hour rehearsal, you do an hour service and you leave. They pay you like $75. Do a gospel service, it’s like 3 hours, 15 people will do the Holy Ghost dance and then the Pasteur will come up afterward and go “God really wants you to do a rehearsal on Thursday”, and I’m like “No he doesn’t!” (Laughter).

Jerohn :”The church I’m at now, I do 8 o’clock morning service and 11 o’clock morning service, and 6 o’clock evening service, and I do service on Wednesday, and 1 rehearsal on Saturday. That’s pretty much the consistent schedule. It’s pretty cool you know.

Waitress: “More beer anybody?”

Marco: “Let me raise this question to everybody. The big myth, once you get the cool road gig, is that you never have to worry about work or hustlin’. When you come up or as a kid you think “wow, I bet that guy never has to worry about money.” Then you get a couple of cool gigs and you’re like “fuck, where’s my rent coming from?” I’m sure even doing sessions and stuff, you’re (Victor) still like where my next check coming from?”

Victor: “All the time. I try not to worry about it. I was just on the road from the summer and I got finished in December. A month before it ended I was already worried about what I was gonna be doin’. Mostly because I have a kid. Things do work out. It is funny. I remember when I was 18, the first band I was in, we got signed to Atlantic records and I thought that was the end. I was like “ok, ya know what, where’s my house on the hill?” It’s just not like that. Even if you get signed, that’s where the work just starts. Like I said, you gotta be in it for the love of doin’ this. You just keep swingin’ the bat.”

Ray: “It’s a big stress point right there. You keep saying it, but it’s the truth. You gotta love it.

Victor: “You do gotta love it, ‘cause if you don’t you end up real bitter, and I know guys that are great musicians but they’re bitter.”

Marco: “And they’re not that old probably”

Victor: “Not even that old and they’re pissed. I go through moments where I feel a little pissed. I look back, like this last year, I played on some big records. But I still rent a house, I still lease a car. A lot of it’s my own fault through things like when I was younger. Taking certain things for granted or when I did make some money I thought it would be there forever. I made my own share of mistakes, for sure. I think when you’re young, hopefully if a younger drummer reads this they’d realize the reality is that you gotta keep doin’ it, and keep sluggin’ away. Keep workin’ because you love it, and then hopefully, maybe you do get lucky and you make a lot of money and you’re able to retire or do whatever on it. But if you do keep on doin’ what you love, I think things do work out for ya regardless. I’ve had times where I do make a good amount of money, then I have months where I’m worried about where the money is comin’ from. As long as I remain true to myself and what I’m doin’, it all seems to kind of get taken care of some how.

Michael: “Just find a rich girlfriend.” (Laughter)

Ray: “And don’t loose her, man.” That’s a great point. I taught at PIT 8, almost 9 years, and I get punks, I call ‘em punks ‘cause they’re 19 year old kids who think they’re gonna make it and they’re gonna do exactly that; making a ton of money. I actually had a kid who wouldn’t play, wouldn’t participate in a class, and one day about 6 weeks into it I asked “are there any questions on today’s lesson?” Johnny or whatever his name was raises his hand and says “yeah, how long is this gonna take?”. I said “what do you mean?”. He goes “this rockstar thing. I told my mom I was gonna be a rockstar.” (Laughter) The whole class starts laughing and he’s like “what?” So I go “why don’t you see me after class. We’ll talk and we’ll just chill out.”. He came back and he was just dead serious. He said “how long is this gonna take? I’ve been here 6 weeks now.” I said “yeah, it might take you 6 years, it might take 60. What are you thinking right now? How much do you love playing?” He’s like “I like it, but I heard on TV you get chicks and money.” (Laughter). I swear to god he was dead serious. I was trying to explain to this kid that he could luck out and you could meet somebody that takes you to that signed band that sells 3 million records right now, or you could struggle for 20 years and not make that much money. It’s amazing how blind some people are when they come out. He came out somewhere from the Midwest. His mom gave him money. Sure enough, in the seventh week he was gone.

Jerohn: “I wanted all the endorsements more, so I could have all those drums!” I wanted a closet, a garage full of snares you know. I don’t need to spend my money on drums, just give me a bunch of drums. That’s what I wanted.”

Greg: “That’s another good point. There’s a lot of misconceptions out there. I get this all the time, and I know Jack (Mayer, Mayer Bros. Drum) does too; e-mails, phone calls, guys who approach me thinking they are gonna get an endorsement and get this free gear! (laughter). The reality is, you’re not gonna be getting the free gear, usually. There are companies that do it, but you gotta be way up there.

Michael: “Especially now days. Back in the 80’s…”

Jerohn: “They’re (kids) probably looking at Tony Royster “ah, he’s good, he’s good. They gave him drums!” I know about 3 real young cats who are phenomenal, they play better than everybody, and people give them some drums.”

Ray: “Like Brooks Wackerman…”

Michael: “I grew up with Brooks.”

Ray: “Did you? He’s great.”

Michael: “I studied with Chuck, and I played in the jazz band in high school under Chuck Wackerman. That’s a weird family, man. They know I love ‘em. I studied with ‘em in sixth, seventh, eighth grade. Brooks used to be like “lets go down to Balboa Island” which is in Orange County down by Newport Beach. “We’ll go pick up chicks.” I’m thinking I wanna hang and listen to some Zappa with him and pick his brain and shit. He was doin’ all this shit on my dashboard, and he just wants to go skateboarding and pick up chicks. He was in eighth grade and I was a senior. So I was hangin’ with a fuckin’ 12-year-old! (Laughter). But at the same time, he always brought CD’s for the car and shit.

Ray: “It was the Infectious Grooves gig in ’92. It was me and him. It was down to me and him. I was 22, he was like 17 or something at the time. Beat me out of it! He got the gig! I was like “a 17 year old beat me out?” When I saw him play I was like “yeah!”

Greg: “How many of you guys are married?”

Victor: “I’m married.”

Michael: “I’ve been engaged twice.” (Laughter).

Jerohn: “I’m getting married in 5 weeks.” (applause and congratulations from all around the table).

Victor: “I’m on number two.

Greg: “So how does being on the road effect having a family?”

Victor: “Well, if you get married you should start your alimony fund now. (Laughter). Save money so you can start payin’ that. It’s hard, but I’ll tell ya, this year was the coolest. With technology, I bring out a little Apple laptop with a webcam. I was in even in Poland and they had high speed Internet. So we could do like a web cam thing and see each other.

Ray: “That’s awesome!”

Victor: “I’ve done the dumbest shit you could ever possibly imagine. Like bringing my cell phone out to Europe, and then come home to like a $3000 phone bill. Just some dumb shit. But it was hard, because my first marriage definitely suffered from it. Subsequent relationships suffered from it. If you’re gone like a year and a half on a big tour, it’s kinda hard to keep things goin’. That’s why I’ve really tried to stay at home in the last couple of years. But it’s that thing with the steady paycheck that keeps drawing me back out on the road. I love traveling, I love touring, but I like to be at home too with my family now.

Greg: “You have kids too.”

Victor: “yeah. It’s changed for me. And I wanna have more kids. So it’s hard.

Michael: “Do you ever have it arranged for them to meet you somewhere?”

Victor: “Oh, absolutely! My son came out with me over the summer. The band I was out with, everybody had kids, so it was pretty kid friendly.”

Ray: “Where did they put the kids? On the bus?”

Victor: “Oh yeah, on the bus. We had a blast. All the guys were around my age, or older, and everybody had kids. There’s no partying or anything. We’ve all been there, done that. It was a pretty easy environment.

Ray: “That’s cool. My situation is different, ‘cause Dave Roth, he’s 50 now, and he doesn’t go for the girlfriend thing, let alone family. He doesn’t have a wife or kids or anything. So even my girl comin’ out on the road is like a secret thing. Like if I’m backstage, I gotta watch what time she’s there. He’s very eccentric, he’s out there.

Marco: “It bugs him if your girlfriend comes out?”

Ray: “No, as long as the gig’s getting done, as long as business is taken care of, obviously it’s fine. But, never on the bus.

Victor: “I would say other gigs I’ve had, I couldn’t imagine doing that. Like the Macy gig, my kid came out a couple times, but there was a little too much going on there. And like other times, if you’re with a big band, the Beck band was a huge band. Like you (Ray) said, you gotta get the job done, and that can be an interference.”

Ray: “It can be.”

Victor: “This thing I did was definitely an exception. An exception for sure. I’d say these are all decisions you make when you’re younger. You work on your career. Me, I always wanted both. I wanted to play music and I wanted to have a family. I just said “I’m gonna make this work however I can do it.” Unfortunately sometimes it means sacrificing things. It means sacrificing time with my son. You just do the best you can.

Michael: “I was just in an argument last night. Not an argument, a “discussion”. (Laughter).

Marco: “A “discussion” is when she’s right.” (Laughter).

Michael: “We keep getting dates, and our dates keep going like this, creeping into fall. Already I’m into next year. I know were gonna be in New York, she lives in New York, so I’m seeing those little points (open dates) right now. So were cool, ‘cause we got at least every 6 weeks for the first half of the year.

Ray: “You fly her out to see your shows?”

Michael: “Yeah. Joe did 2 weeks with Jewel at the end of November and I had 2 weeks off. Got paid. It was great. So I flew to New York.”

Ray: “I fly mine out to see shows.”

Jerohn: “I had my fiancée out with me on a gig I did with Darrin Hayes from Savage Garden. I think I had her out, I believe, for maybe about a month or so. It was beautiful. They loved her! But it was kind of a special situation. We did some promo, and I said “I’ve had enough. I’m not goin’.” Came home and, Darrin is from Australia, so the tour kicked off in Australia. I’m at home (in LA). I’m at church, and I get a call from Darrin. He says “Hey, I need you to come out here. The show starts in 5 days.” So they had been rehearsing drummers for 3 weeks, and now they got 5 days. So I thought “alright, this one gonna cost you.” (Laughter). The budget wasn’t that big, so I said “bring the fiancée out with me.” They all “perfect. Do it. Sure, let’s go.”

Michael: “That’s quick thinking. I’d be like… $500 a week? Ok….” (Laughter)

Jerohn: “And luckily, they loved her. They like her more than they like me. They like “Does she sing?” It worked out wonderful even though she got sick a bunch of times. Took her to Mexico, got food poisoning. Spent a whole bunch of money, had to get the IV thing. Having her there was beautiful.

Michael: “You guys have done a lot more than me, but it might be good to talk about money. I’ve always settled for less and I’ve never made big money.

Jerohn: “Money is just goin’ down and down. Like big gigs, they would say “dog you really making a whole lot of money.” But its “no, I just doin’ all right.”

Ray: “The David Lee Roth gig, in ’86, when Bissonette had that gig, cover of Modern Drummer pow! House, bam! Porsche, bam! It’s a whole lot different when I got the gig in ’97. I get treated well, but it’s nothing like it was.

Jerohn: “I have a guy, did the Janet Jackson Rhythm Nation tour. Huge. Wonderful. That’s a big fame to glory, right? We got the drummers come after him, and we like “you making the huge money”. No, no. It’ still better than the average R & B/hip hop artist, but it’s still not as big as you thought. I mean, I hear stories of like Madonna’s drummer getting’ $10,000 a week, somethin’ insane like that, I’m just like “ok, I’m playin’ with such-and-such, 15, 16, 10…”

Ray: (I’ve heard stories) like $22,000 a week!

Jerohn: “Some of these cats they got like the signing bonus. Just for saying you’ll come out on the road, here’s 50 g’s.”

Marco: “Even things that are supposed to happen, like at the end of a tour, an end of tour bonus. Those things don’t even happen any more.”

Ray: “They don’t.”

Marco: “The two things I learned really quickly, don’t think about it in terms of numbers. Take whatever number you want and subtract 33 percent. Negotiate after taxes.

Ray: “It’s true. That’s a good point.

Marco: “$1300 a week, that ends up being $900 after taxes. Not even netting $1000. It’s not really $1300 a week. So I always negotiate after taxes. And the other thing, if you low-ball ‘em, they’ll treat you like shit.

Ray: “That’s exactly it.”

Marco: “No, it’s true! The more you ask for….”

Ray: “See I used to be afraid of that though. I used to think like I just want the opportunity. Hence the Shrapnel records thing. I did 13 CD’s, but I didn’t make shit. I have a stack of CD’s to show for it, but made nothing. Everytime I go to his house, I look at one of those beams holding his mansion up, goin’ “I think I paid for some of these.” (Laughter). It’s a touchy situation. You want the opportunity, cause sometimes if you ask for a high number, they say “so-and-so will do it for a lot less.”

Jerohn: “I respect you (Ray), Victor, and the other veteran cats who are just like “I’m not leaving my house for less than…” I have a comfortable church gig, so I can sometimes say “no.” $1500, $1600 that’s the average R & B wage these days. It’s really declining. These managers and these cats, they see these young church cats who are hungry to get out there and play. $800 a week. They’ll do it. They don’t care. Let ‘em play drums and tell ‘em what to do. That’s why so many cats in R & B are doing writing and producing. Real solid musicians who have been out there and made all these beautiful tours work, made it great for the people, they like “write me some songs, collect me a check in my bed.” Not go out and do all this work for this little bit of money. And then you get a lot of cats who say “if I’m gonna work that hard, I’m gonna do it for myself. Start my own band.” If I’m gonna suffer, it might as well be for something I’m gonna benefit from.

Marco: “That’s another point too. When someone comes at you with “a band”, they’ll say “we don’t have any money, but…”. It’s like, let me get this straight. I didn’t write any of the songs, I’m not getting any of the publishing, and this is supposed to blow up? Yeah, that’s a band… They don’t owe you shit. They can hire or fire you whenever they want. I would much rather just be a sideman, so “this is my price, take it or leave it”. If something happens, they really need you, then you negotiate.

Michael: “What about showing conviction and faith? Commitment. Like in my shoes, with Joe Firstman, he’s a baby band or a baby artist. In my eyes, I’m going “stick this little period out, it’s like yeah…” I love the music, and like you (Victor) were saying, it’s about loving what I do. If I was to quit because of what I was making, I’d be fuckin’ hustlin’ here in LA.”

Marco: “For me, it’s totally a personal choice. From my aspect, even with Liz, and I have a great relationship with Liz. She’s totally cool and in the down time I’ll talk to her on the phone. She’s totally great, but it’s like she doesn’t owe me shit. I have nothing that ties me to her success. If all of a sudden the record goes platinum, I’m not gonna get more money. It just doesn’t work that way. You’re always looking out, making sure you have an exit route. In case this thing goes south, in case the whole record pans and they cancel the last eight weeks of the tour that they said you were gonna be on, you gotta have an exit route.

Victor: “Expectation is a mother fucker right there. You can’t really count on things. It is a hard thing. I played on a lot of these records, and they did really good. But I don’t make any more money. I get my session fee and I’m done. What a great point (Jerohn), there are so many guys that will go out and do this stuff for so cheap right now. That hurts guys like me who have been doing this for a long time. They’ll ask me how much I want and go “uhhhh, I don’t know…” I don’t charge that much. I’ve definitely never made six a week. Never. But I’ve done pretty good on a couple of tours. But now it’s weird. The business is in a weird place. You gotta adjust to what’s goin’ on. Be ready for things. It is hard being a drummer when you didn’t write any of the songs. You’re not gonna get anything else, and you’re expendable. I think if you don’t put an expectation on something, and you know what you’re doin’, you make a decision like maybe it could end tomorrow or it’ll do a little bit better. When you start thinking in terms, like when I was younger I thought when you get signed “fuck, this is it.”

Jerohn: “Don’t get too comfortable in a seat that’s not really yours.

Marco: “But that’s always a challenge. To make that seat yours. Musically anyway.”

Ray: “Build a relationship with the artist.”

Marco: “Liz’ gig is actually, you wouldn’t think it, musically its actually very challenging. If you listen to her new album, which is all top session guys, and the old stuff which is really Stones-ey (Rolling Stones). It’s two totally different things and I have to make it all sound congruous. So the whole challenge with that gig, is to try to make everything, like a cohesive sound. Trying to make sure that whatever I’m doing is right for the music. Trying to make yourself indispensable to the show. It’s hard to make it so that it would be hard for them to bring someone else in.

Michael: “Last week I was hanging with Shaun Pelvin, and in his words, “the only thing you can be responsible for is being a mother fucker.” That’s like be as bad ass as you can all the time. Own the shit.

Jerohn: “That’s always a compliment when you left a gig and someone else has come on, and the band members are like “he’s just not sitting in there the way you did.” I make it a point to just lay it in there real good so that when somebody else comes in there, they gotta work real hard to make it feel as good.”

Michael: “Then you got the band leaders goin’ “ well Ray used to do it like this…he did the fills like…

Jerohn: “Yeah, I got a lot of that with Victor.” (Laughter). The band always like “Victor laid it in there like this…”

Michael: “Then there’s that rehearsal where you’re actually cursing Victor.” (laughter).

Marco: “I think one of the hardest things about touring, especially with Liz’ gig, that I found out early on, it sounds stupid, but making it sound fresh. It actually can become really difficult. You can play the show in your sleep. Liz will change the set list or spring a song on us that nobody knows 10 minutes before we go on. You know, like hit songs, making it sound fresh and stuff. Not just going through the motions.

Ray: “I’m playing songs from ’77 with Dave that were hits then, up until (songs from) now. So I know your point well. He doesn’t like to change the set list that much.

Marco: “How long have you (Michael) been playing with Joe?”

Michael: “13 months.”

Marco: “Some of those songs you’ve been playing at least that long. Like Breaking all the Ground, all those ones.

Michael: “Also Joe is one that, he’s of the Allman Brothers school of playing a show. He never wants it to be the same, ever. Tonight were doing Subway Boy, and you don’t know who’s taking the solo. It’s eyes up at the end of the second chorus you know. If he looks up at the guitar player, ok, guitar solo, and it’s cue into the final hurrah chorus. That could be 32 bars, it could be 64, it could be 8. (Laughter). I’m lucky man. There’s so much musical freedom. I get a solo almost every night. It’s over like a vamp and shit.

Jerohn: “That wore me out. Macy gave me a segment where I just played by myself as long as I felt like it.

Michael: “Interesting…”

Jerohn: “Man I got tired of that. We did one show where the bass player had to go to the bathroom! It was “keep goin’, keep goin’.”

Michael: “That’s a challenge in itself. Trying to get an audience just with you.

Jerohn: “I stopped playing chops. I started standin’ up, walkin’ around, hittin’ the bass drum from the front. Doin’ stupid stuff just to get the crowd…”

Ray: “It’s all about entertainment man.”

Jerohn: “Well, they don’t know chops.”

Ray: “What’s the percentage of musicians in the audience? Some of those kids can barely tap their foot. Dave taught me that it’s all about the entertainment.”

Jerohn: “If I twirl that stick or somethin’ they gonna be like “whooo!…” (laughter).

Ray: “One of the biggest compliments I ever got is when I throw it (stick) up and it almost hits the light rack and I catch it.

Jerohn: “They talk “Oohhh, throw that stick and catch that thing. It come right back down…” That’s the comment right there. (laughter).

Michael: “I’ve taken that thing to a whole other level. I intentionally miss it. (Laughter). I got the other one waiting. People laugh.

Ray: “We were in Henson recording not too long ago. I got done with this thing, and I’m like man, we played down four songs and I’m just layin’ down stuff. I hear fills, there’s stuff coming up. I started doing some stuff, and all I hear is the talk back button “Luzier that’s great. I imagine all the PIT guys would love that. (Laughter). But the people in the front, back to about row… 85 don’t give a fuck what you just played. Make it girl friendly. Play me some girl friendly fills.” (Laughter). Play some girl friendly fills. I like that. Simply that a little.

Michael: “Roy Burns told me, on that note, “what’s gonna pay your car bill and your mortgage is 2 and 4.” That’s what he said, and it hit me. I was like, that makes sense. From then on I was this pocket Al Greene. I went back to Otis Redding, old R & B. Ok, that’s cool too.

Marco: “It seems no matter what style of music you’re playing, it has to have some blues in it. Whether it’s like rock or playing R & B, there has to be some kind of a feeling of blues in it. Even playing straight eight notes, it has to swing a little bit.

Non-drummer Al: “I have a question. It’s often said that you work to live and you live to work. Musicians have the best of both worlds I would say. Given that to some extent, all of you have taken that mercenary gig, how do you gear up for something that you don’t particularly enjoy playing or where you’re not a fan of the music yourself? As a hired gun, you have to take things that you wouldn’t play.

Victor: “I can take that one. Let me speak on that. I have done a lot of things. Like I ain’t gonna go buy the Hilary Duff record. (Laughter). But there’s a great quote from Ray Charles I remember reading; “there’s something beautiful in every type of music.” The older I’ve gotten, I try to remember what I like about playing drums and how I felt as a little kid. And I try to approach everything I do with that same feeling. I don’t want to be loaded and go on stage, I want to feel everything I feel. Be it angry, be it happy, be it sad. And like, put everything I can into what I’m doing and know that I’m doing my best. Even if I’m not down with the music, I always seem to find something even in the cheesiest shit sometimes that I can lock onto. I try to get excited just to play. Which sometimes is not the easiest thing to do. But it’s weird, I’ve been finding the older I’m getting now, that I’m getting’ back to that same place. Like about warming up. I’d only warm up before I played a show usually. In the past couple months I went and bought myself a practice pad again. I’m sittin’ around the house practicing again. I keep trying to remind myself what it is that made me fall in love with it in the first place, and then have the perspective that damn I’m lucky to be doing this. Lucky to be doing this. What a gift. No matter where you do it, whether you’re making money or not making money doing it. Anything you do, if you’re heart’s really in it, that’s when you’re gonna do your best.

Ray: “That’s goin’ back to doing what you love to do. I deal with this agency called Perfect World Entertainment, we do Boogie Nights. I don’t know if you guys ever heard this kind of gig. I had a guy from Finland, I’ll never forget, he saw me play with Dave in front of 40,000 people at a rock festival. Then he saw me at the Viper Room in front of 300 people with a wig on. A disco wig! Full John Travolta. Kick, snare, crash and hats. He’s like “I don’t understand , how can you do that, then do this?” I’m a working drummer and I’m happy to play anything, whether it’s that (points left) or that (points right). So that’s another thing too. Those guys(other band members) that are bummed out about that! I love it man. Like you (Victor) said, you find the good in it. I found out. I played to a click track every night and that kicked my ass ‘cause I never played to a click track live before, only in the studio. So that, with the adrenaline rush from the crowd, you gotta stay in control cause you’re playing to horn samples and keys.

Victor: “That’s a whole other thing that should be talked about. The best thing I ever read when I was a kid was a round table interview like this, in Modern Drummer, and it was all the session guys. They were asking them like what kind of advice could you give? I remember somebody said “get yourself a metronome, and fuckin’ go to sleep with this thing.” Like set it in different tempos and go to sleep. Just imagine yourself playing different things to it. I did that! It was the best thing. When I finally got a real recording session, I wasn’t scared of the click. A lot of the gigs I get as a session guy, are because there was a drummer in a band who showed up at the gig and was afraid to play to a click.

Marco: “My practice set up at home, is a kick, snare and hi-hat. I’ll just practice along to records, and then I will practice along to a click at 45 beats a minute. I’ve done that for years. It’s literally the best thing I’ve ever done for my playing. And getting to the point where you don’t even think about it. Where it’s like there’s this other guy in my head. (Laughter) You know what I mean.

Michael: “I think I read that same article. Was Jeff Porcaro?…”

Victor: “Porcaro was, yeah.”

Marco: “yeah, the one with Vinnie and Keltner and Porcaro…”

Michael: “They said pretend it’s a cowbell player.

Victor: “Somebody hitting a cowbell, yeah. There’s gigs now where you gotta do it live and there’s sequenced tracks in the background.”

Michael: “And you gotta learn how to hold on to the adrenaline.”

Jerohn: “I’m telling you, that’s all R & B.”

Victor: “You gotta learn how to use that shit.”

Jerohn: “I promise you, now days, if you go to an Usher show or Janet Jackson, every song is on some type of pro-tools. Brian Frazer, every song is playing them pads. Vocals on pro-tools probably. I’ve seen pro-tools set ups, 200 tracks! I’m like, what is all this stuff? You got guitar, bass, and drums on this track! What is all this stuff? You gotta lock up with it.

Victor: “ It’s sessions too. Most of the sessions I do, it’s done. Drums are the last thing to go on there. There are so many things in there. All these 32 notes all over the place, and you got about 2 minutes to be throwing down. If you walk in there and your first track isn’t slammin’ out of the gates, their on the phone (to someone else). So you feel the pressure. You better know how to play to the click and make friend with that thing.

Ray: “I agree with all this 100 percent, but I’ve had some situations where, like with Dave Roth in 1998 with his album called DLR band, there’s only two songs on the whole record to a click track. I was freakin’ ‘cause I play everything to a click. I didn’t dig it. He (David Lee Roth) walked in and it’s like “rock and roll, fuck the click!” Just me and the guitar player. No bass. I didn’t even know how the words went. I didn’t know how to compliment the song because I didn’t know how the vocal went. To this day I listen to that record and I’m like “oh, I sped up, auhh, I slowed down.” You got to have the concept. Build your internal clock.

Victor: “Absolutely. And also I think another great point is that you gotta be well rounded. You can’t be a one trick pony and keep working. I’m probably more guilty now of not knowing new things, but when I was a kid, I listened to everything. I would listen R & B, hip-hop stuff, whatever rock stuff… As many things as possible so I could rap my head around it. Whatever situation I was in. And of course you should definitely be able to play without a click ‘cause that’s a fine art too.

Ray: “I told my students at PIT, I say 85 percent, maybe 80 percent (of the time) play to a click but don’t do it 100 percent ‘cause if you get asked to do without, all of a sudden you’re relying on it.

Jerohn: “Another thing is when you’re playing a pocket where you laying back on it, you can’t lay back on no click! You gotta be able to just have an internal thing where you know the beat is right here but you just right there (off the beat) and making that thing feel crazy like “Ohhh, wow”. You wanna just sink down in the couch and don’t get up ‘cause it’s just layin’ in there. Like you waitin’ for that snare to hit, but it don’t quite come when you want it to, but when it comes it’s like “Oooohhh… yeah…”

Ray: “I had session calls like that where it was play the verse back yesterday, and then push the hell out of the chorus.

Victor: “That’s the fine art of it. Learning how to play on back of it and then still making the chorus’ go on top.

Ray: “yup.”

Victor: “It just comes with being familiar with something so much that you don’t get intimidated by it. That’s what happens a lot. You get intimidated by it. Even still, I get nervous going to a session.”

Ray: “I still get it (nervous). Big time. On stage as well”

Victor: “Me too. I love that. You can use that in a positive way. Not letting it trip you out.”

Michael: “My first recording session I did with a click, they had a Dr Beat, and that’s the one I had at home. I lucked out. That was a good first experience for me.

Ray: “You were familiar with that sound right?”

Michael: “I was actually, “can you put the beep, on every beat?” “Cause that’s how I practice. It was cool ‘cause I knew how to do it.

Jerohn: “But you know one thing, I’ve played behind some drummers where their click is like CLICK, CLICK, CLICK. I’m like “how do you concentrate with your click that loud in your ear?”

Victor: “See, I’m that guy. (Laughter)

Jerohn: “It’s all bleeding in the snare mic…” (laughter). “What’s that sound coming from that channel.”

Greg: “let’s talk groupies.

Ray: “It’s not like it used to be with Dave. Yeah, they’re there for the taking. The buffets always open. I’m faithful to my girl. With Dave you get all generations, from 18 year olds to Grammas. Think about it, Van Halen I came out in what? ’77? Their (groupies) there, but I’m not the guy who partakes. Sorry to be boring. The parties are there, trust me. There’s anything you want. Dave’s got so many friends. He’s sold so many records. Been around the globe so many times. It’s all there. There’s always stars that visit the show, celebrities are always there. I’m one of those chill guys. I just lay back. I do my gig well. Sorry I don’t have stories…I’m a geek man. I love playin’ so much. That’s just what I do. I’m the geek in my (hotel) room with the 16 track Roland hard drive with my guitar and my pod writing stuff. I’m kinda the outcast in the band.

Jerohn: “Me, I’m a big church boy so I’m not gonna go out and party. I’m goin’ on the bus.

Greg: “Outside of groupies, there’s always hard core fans. How do you interact with these fans?

Michael: ”I have something to say about that. There’s a mystique about it because… I always wondered the girls were always so easy to get. (Laughter).

Greg: “It’s a big misconception that’s out there.

Michael: “When I was growing up seeing Madonna; she’s a chick. She’s fuckin commanding her shit. She’s hot. I’m talking about all these old ladies. Who’s hot now? Cheryl Crow. I watched her for 7 weeks last summer, well she’s old too, but she’s hot. She is talented. She’s playing bass on this song, piano on this song, guitar, acoustic, electric, sg on this one, singing like an angel. I realized that’s attractive to see somebody up there. So the girls are seeing us up there.

Ray: “It’s a fantasy world to them. You’re untouchable almost.

Michael: “I have 5 sisters, so I feel sorry for them (fans/groupies). I’ve never done well on the road. I’ve had some fun, but (laughter). I’m goin “yeah, come on, you’re smarter than that.” My lead singer’s goin’ “ok” and he’s goin’ to the back of the bus with two. (laughter). I feel sorry for them.

Ray: “I do too man. It’s bad. There’s a lot of people waiting for the next national act to come through.

Marco: “I think it’s different touring with a woman. There has never once been a another woman that has set foot on our bus. It would not happen.

Greg: “Not even mom?”

Marco: “Oh, mom came on one time. There’s never any girls. Everybody in the band either has a wife or a girlfriend. There’s literally none of that.

Michael: “It depends what kind of man you are. What you want. After the show, bus call might be 3 in the morning. The bar is right across the street. You go over there with the bass player and just get a beer. It’s there for the taking.

Marco: “You’re in a band, so people are watching the band. No gives a shit who we are. I’ve never even had someone recognize me.

Jerohn: “It depends, ‘cause kiddie-pop, they just love you ‘cause you get to ride on the bus with such-and-such.

Ray: “But it all comes down to responsibility, even with Dave as wild and crazy as he is. I’ve seen people get fired from a gig. Techs, musicians. I’m the only one left from ’97. Literally, management, accountants, everybody. I’m the only one left. That’s kind of scary when I look back. I brought all the band members in. I even recommended techs, the whole bit. It comes down to responsibility. I look back and I think; “I’m the only guy who made bus call that night.” You gotta be responsible if you want to keep your gig. I ended up being the MD of the band. I’m calling all the guys, arranging all the rehearsals. For the readers, you gotta be responsible man.”

Marco: “yeah. I never drink before the show. After it’s done, you can do what you want.

Jerohn: “We were out with Macy, and on this particular tour, we only had two buses. Crew bus, and the Macy bus. Myself and a couple other people stayed on the bus with Macy. So we go into this town, Atlanta or wherever she’s from, and after the show we get off stage and we tired. Her freakin’ cousins, brothers, aunts and everybody is on the freakin’ bus hangin’ out! I’m like “what the piss is this?” They got real comfortable, telling jokes and everything.

Ray: “That’s your home.”

Marco: “Yeah. People don’t get that. That is your house.”

Jerohn: “I wanted to really snap on all of them. It’s Macy’s family, so I ain’t gonna offend too many people. They in there drinking my soda, eating my food. They in there drinking and smokin’!”

Ray: “I had one of the light guys sister laying in my bunk. She wanted to see what it felt like. (laughter). She said “how do you sleep in these coffins?” I’m like “get out, that’s my bed!” (laughter). I got stuff to do, that’s the only space I have.

Marco: “It’s amazing, you’re on a bus with 7, 8, 9 people. That little curtain becomes so important. This is my space, I do what I want here.

Jerohn: “I got so much stuff piled up in that little footlocker. All your backpack, all your books. Can’t even stretch out your legs. It’s your spot though.

Victor: “I’m really excited about having an I-pod on the road though.

Ray: “I’m the guy with the big old case of CD’s. A couple years ago, our bass player got one (I-pod). He’s like “hey Ray, see all that stuff? And he pulls it (I-pod) out. Thousands of songs right here.”

Greg: “Let’s jump to gear, and talk about back line stuff. We got back line gear for some of this stuff, and sometimes maybe taking your own gear. You’re (Victor) smiling over here.

Victor: Well, it’s funny. On a lot of tours you usually get to bring your stuff. But I remember with Macy we did a lot of stuff over in Europe and we didn’t get to bring our own gear. Luckily, growing up, my family was pretty poor and I didn’t have a drum set until I was like 16 or 17. So I collected the most rickety-ass drums and I played on different people’s kits. So I was playing on different things all the time. That’s a hard thing. Once you get used to your set up, to go play something else.

Jerohn: “I’ve also got pretty accustomed to playing different kits. I was doing En Vogue for two, two and a half years and we never toured. They were the type of group that just spot dates. Spot everywhere. Spot day gig. Spot day gig. Different kit every time. Somedays I get the old Pearl Export stuff, I’d get a decent Masters sometimes, sometimes I’d get a Yamaha, then they’d give me a Pearl drum set, DW snare, and Yamaha hardware. Everything everywhere. (When I first started) it was “Oh, I got a Pearl today. Oh, I got a DW today.” I was happy ‘cause I got all these different kits. It was cool for me. Then I took out my stuff n the Macy gig and did the overseas stuff and had to pay rental stuff and I was happy. I was playin’.

Ray: “I’m fixing that right now, ‘cause I go to Japan on the twenty-third. Orange County Drum and Percussion, there’s only 10 OCDP kits in Japan right now. So I have to use DW over there, which I’m fine with. I’ve been fortunate enough to have my own kits out with me.”

Jerohn: “I did a gig, in Russia…”

Marco: “Was that the Coolio gig?”

Jerohn: “No, Darrin Hayes. I was playin’ a DW on that tour. The tom was green, the kick was a burgundy, and the 2 floor toms… I was playin 10, 12, 14, 16… the two floor toms were burgundy, the kick was burgundy, and my rack toms were green, and my snare was green! Got me a Christmas set! (Laughter).

Michael: “The thing that changed me and made me not care, my Uncle is a drummer, and the CB700 drum set I had when I started out was his.

Ray: “Everybody had one of those.”

Jerohn : “I had Kima! (Laughter).

Michael: “My uncle, and my dad, I would be like “I want a new drum set, I want a new drum set.” They would be like either “work for it or just like what you got, it’s the full tool.” They always told me that. Then I saw a Dennis Chambers video or article or somethin’, and was like “every tour I change a cymbal around, switch the toms different, something to make it different every night,” so he doesn’t fall into any type of rut. At church gigs or in jazz band, you always got the crap kit like at school. You do TV and stuff in Canada, the Canadian rental companies that’s a whole nother thing.

Ray: “Joe Porcaro, who was my private instructor at PIT, told me “Ray, a true professional can play on a cardboard box and make it sound good.”

Marco: “Totally true.”

Ray: “Even if it has “Animal” on the front head and it’s a muppet kit. You should be able to make it sound decent. Everytime I complain at one of those gigs where I got the little “whatever” set up where, the toms, you can’t adjust anything…(Laughter)

Jerohn: “Where the legs just won’t stay up, and every time you hit the floor it falls over..” (laughter).

Ray: “Can’t adjust the thrown and you sit on telephone books!” (Laughter).

Marco: “I like the one where the mounted tom is actually lower than the snare.” (Laughter). I used to be super freaky about bringing my kit…”

Greg: “Used to?” (Laughter).

Marco: “Anyway! After a while, you do all these auditions and shit, and it’s always on a different kit. Whatever kit you play, you should have enough bone-tone to make it sound like you. It should always sound like you. You should be able to adjust. Figure what you can do with your hands and what you can do with a drum key within 5 minutes you should be able to get it pretty cool. Sometimes it is bad, like in Europe, the rentals are fuckin’ horrendous! We were in Germany, I swear the S.I.R. over there is called “where is the stage?” (laughter). Yeah, it’s called “where is the stage?” They show up in this little white van that says “where is the stage?” They show up with a B3 that has a 9-volt battery in it, a fucked up DW kit with Pinstripes from 1982 so it sounds like a Tejano band. Always, always if you’re renting a kit, the cymbal stand will have no sleeves on them. Guaranteed.”

Michael: “I bring those. I carry ‘em in my stick bag. Speaking of Brooks Wackerman, he would come into jazz band sometimes, and I’m doin’ my thing with the toms thinking this thing sounds like shit. Blaming a bad day at rehearsal on the kit, and Brooks comes in after rehearsal, in like sixth grade, (and plays the kit). I’m like “holy shit! That sounds good.” It’s so much the player.

Greg: “Time to go guys. They’re closing the restaurant…”

(c)  2001 Drum Solo
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